Talk:Claim System

Statement of assumptions

• Enmity doesn't matter for initial claim on a monster that isn't attacking anyone. You can claim with any spell that acts on the target. (except for Cure on everything but undead)
• The claiming system is consistent

Test 0, How long does it take to unclaim?

I claimed, engaged, and disengaged several times solo. It takes 2-5 seconds after disengaging or claiming another monster for a monster to go from red back to white.

Subject 1, Claiming a white monster that is attacking someone

If a monster is attacking someone else, what conditions must be met for claim to be given to a player outside the party?
Option 1: Number of Actions matters Option 2: Enmity generated matters

• Test 1: Number of Actions vs. Enmity : Claimed two monsters with Threnody (300 CE each), the first one unclaimed.
  • For another character in the party, any action attempted will claim the unclaimed monster without unclaiming the first, even if it doesn't give them enough enmity to reach the top of the hate list
  • For a character outside the party, Blind/Dispel/Step usage (x15) didn't claim the monster, though it did pull hate.
  • Waltz IV (400 CE) -> Step did claim the monster, so Enmity matters in some way, rather than simply number of actions.

• Test 2: Enmity required? : Claimed two monsters with Threnody (300CE each), first one unclaimed, and I cast Threnody 1x on each of them, then Carol x2 and Cure V x1 for a total of 804 CE
  • Outside player used Box Step on the unclaimed one -> Waltz IV (401 CE) and waited for full Enmity decay, then another Step (not claimed, 402 CE) and another Waltz IV (802 CE) -> Reverse Flourish (803 CE) -> Step (Miss, 804 CE, have hate) -> Step (Hit: 805 CE, ?? VE vs. 804 CE = Claim)
  • Outside player used Box Step on the unclaimed one -> Waltz IV x2 (801 CE) and waited for full Enmity decay, then another Step (not claimed and the monster didn't even glance at me, which means the VE associated with steps is likely wrong- 802 CE, ?? VE vs. 804 CE) Three more actions shifted claim to the outside player.

Conclusion: Having even just 1 more CE than the opposition allows you to claim the monster.

• Test 3: Is it CE only? : Claimed two monsters with Blind (201 CE each), first one unclaimed, then used Waltz IV for 601 CE total
  • Outside player used Silence, Cure x15 (16 CE), Carol x2 (56 CE), then Cure 6 (420 CE) and Flash (600 CE, lots of VE) rapidly, managed to claim the unclaimed monster. When the VE decayed, the monster's attention shifted back to the original claimer but the second player retained claim.

Conclusion: "Claim" is is not exclusively based on CE.

• Test 4: Is it based on VE, CE, or attention?
  • Following the same process as Test 3 above, I put a long delay between Cure 6 and Flash so that I did not have the monster's attention on the outside player when Flash went off. He did not get claim.
  • Repeated the test again with one fewer Cure for 0 HP, with a long delay, and this time I cast Silence approximately 15 seconds after Flash, so I wasn't in danger of reaching the same VE that I had immediately following Flash and still had less CE than the original claimer. The outside player got claim.

Conclusion: "Claim" is based on monster's attention, not VE or CE. If you get the monster's attention and act on it again, you get claim.

• Test 5: Party status?
  • Had a White Mage friend (Kramer) come help for this one. Everyone at 0 Enmity with Stoneskin on. Main party is WHM + DNC. Lonely mule (BRD) is outside the party. Pulled a monster with Threnody using the outside Bard (300CE), and Kramer cast Cure V/VI on it (Kramer - 728 CE). BRD Mule Engaged/Disengaged to turn it white, and DNC (0CE) used a Step on the monster (1CE) to turn it red.

Concolusion: The monster's attention does not have to be focused on the claimer, just someone in the claimer's party/alliance. Makes sense, as it is possible to re-claim with a single action as long as you're both in the same party.

Subject 2, How many monsters can you claim at once?

• Test 1: How many monsters can I keep claimed solo? - Only one, regardless of what I do.
  • Claimed one monster, if I claim a second monster the first one unclaims.
  • Pulled two monsters (one of them red), cast Cure V on myself 10 times (3841 CE), claimed the other and the first one unclaimed
• Test 2: How many monsters can I keep claimed in a party of two where the other player does nothing?
  • Pulled two monsters (one of them red), cast Cure V on myself 10 times (3841 CE on both targets), claimed the other one and the first one unclaimed.
• Test 3: How many monsters can I keep claimed in a party of two where one player barely generates any Enmity?
  • Pulled two monsters using the first character (one of them red, cast Cure V on myself 10 times (3841 CE on both targets).
  • Second character used Box Step on the unclaimed monster and failed to claim it (as seen above)
  • First character claimed the Stepped monster and the unstepped monster unclaimed.
  • First character reclaimed the Unstepped monster and the Stepped monster unclaimed.
  • First character claimed the Stepped monster and waited 3.5 minutes, then claimed the unstepped monster and lost claim on the first.
• Test 4: How many monsters can I keep claimed in a party of two where one player generates a lot of Enmity immediately after claim?
  • Pulled two monsters, used Waltz IV on myself while they were still both red. Neither unclaimed. <--- Have not been able to replicate this at all. However, holding the same monster for a long period of time can result in what looks like a glitch. It's like the monster has deagroed but is still attacking you. I have no idea what actually causes it. All I know is that it tends to happen if I afk for long enough.

Subject 3: The Monster is Red, who has Claim?

• Test 1 - Does Cumulative Enmity matter?
  • WHM/BRD pulls with Threnody (300 CE), monster is red. DNC/RDM casts Silence, engages, and disengages. Monster goes white. - Cumulative Enmity doesn't seem to matter in that the player with more cumulative enmity did not maintain claim.
  • Repeating the test and engaging/disengaging on the WHM/BRD fails to turn the monster white
• Test 2 - Does Volatile Enmity matter?
  • WHM/BRD pulls with Threnody (300 CE), monster is red. WHM casts Flash (480 CE, 1280 VE) and DNC/RDM casts Silence almost at the same time (so WHM has a huge VE advantage). DNC/RDM engages, disengages, and the Monster goes white.
  • Repeating the above test and engaging/disengaging on the WHM/BRD fails to turn the monster white. - Volatile Enmity does not determine claim within a party
• Test 3 - Does Attention matter?
  • Obviously not, if you read the above tests. The DNC/RDM never had attention, yet obviously had claim over the monster in that he could engage and disengage to turn it white. - Total Enmity does not determine claim within a party.
• Claim in a party appears to just be determined by who made the last action. There is one exception. See below.

Subject 4: Weird "Party Claim" states

It is possible to get a monster so that two people, or a party, have claim. I noticed while doing the above tests that if I cast in rapid succession I could make it so neither one of my players was able to engage/disengage and turn the monster white. The monster also seems to default to this if it hasn't been acted on in a few minutes, or it might be related to the monster doing damage to the person that has "claim" within a party.

• The next player to act gets "claim" again, like normal within a party.